A Deep Q&A With Sarai and Haley

Show Notes

• Take a sewing quiz! Our free quiz will help you a little about your sewing style and send you a bunch of free ideas and resources that match your goals.


• Voice Liner: Sarai uses this app to record voice memos when she has fun ideas.


• Podcast listeners get half off an unlimited Seamwork membership when you use this link, plus you get to keep that price as long as you’re a member!


• Tell us your idea for the next icebreakers for makers!

Sarai
I'm Sarai.

Haley
And I'm Haley.

Sarai
And this is Seamwork Radio. Welcome back to Seamwork Radio, where we share practical ideas for building a creative process so you can sew with intention and joy.

Today, Haley and I are answering some deep, deep questions from our fellow teammates here at Seamwork.

So this is not going to be your average sewing Q and A. It's going to be a little different. We're going to cover juicy topics like what we really think about our jobs, how we deal with imposter syndrome, and where we see Seamwork going in the next five years.

Since we have so many questions today, we are actually going to skip our icebreaker for today because this whole thing is kind of like one big icebreaker.

Haley
It is.

Sarai
But if you have icebreaker questions for us for a future episode, you can share them with us. If you're a Seamwork member, just go to steamwork.com/go/icebreakers. And you can leave your idea for a future icebreaker question right there. And we really appreciate all of the contributions we get there. So thank you for everybody who's already left one.

All right, so we're going to dive right in today. And this first question is a doozy, just a startling beg, which is, do you ever get imposter syndrome when you're sewing, even after all these years? That one's for you, Haley. Take it away.

Do you ever get imposter syndrome when you sew?

Haley
All right. Of course, I suffer from imposter syndrome with everything—kind of all aspects of my life. I think where I get really in my head is when we're recording, tutorials, or sealongs.

And two things. First of all, you're always sewing at like, a weird angle when you're trying to film yourself sewing. So you're like, you can't sew with the exact precision you normally can.

You're thinking about filming and thinking about sewing, so, like, you're a little bit distracted.

And then just the things that you pick up on camera are not the things that your naked eye sees. So that's I feel like when my imposter syndrome gets the worst of me, where I'm like, “what the heck am I doing teaching people to sew? Because that topstitching looks funky.”

And then the weekend comes, and I'm like, in my sewing room, I sew and I'm like, man, I'm good. What was I talking about?

Sarai
I had that experience just yesterday because I was filming a video for YouTube yesterday, and I was trying to show on camera, I think it was something with elastic, which already looks like a complete mess on camera because everything's all bunched up. And I had a pair of pants, which is a lot of fabric to show in front of the camera. And I was at a weird angle because I don't have like, an overhead set-up at home where I was filming. So it was kind of from an angle, and I was trying to get my hands in there, and I was just like, this looks like a hot mess.

Haley
Yeah. When you're trying to sew on camera, your head is always in the way, so you're always, like, craning your head so you can kind of see what you're doing. I feel like it just activates imposter syndrome in me instantly.

Sarai
That's understandable, I think. For me, I kind of have this theory that—I don't think imposter syndrome is really a syndrome. I think everybody experiences it. It's just a natural state of, let's say a natural state of being. Like, we're all walking around like this all the time, but it's something that I think everybody deals with a lot of the time. There's this really great article. I think it was in the Atlantic. Maybe we can put it in the show notes. But Oliver Burkeman said everybody is just winging it all the time. It's from many years ago. But he talks about how these people in these really high level professions, like in politics and people that you think have their act together are just figuring it out as they go, just like the rest of us, and just making things up all the time. And I think that's just how a lot of stuff goes, and it just looks different from the outside.

Haley
Yeah, totally.

Sarai
So I don't really consider it a syndrome, and I find that really helpful because when I experience it, I just recognize that it's just normal. That's just how everybody feels from time to time. I get it when I'm sewing sometimes, because everybody makes mistakes when they're sewing. And so, of course, you're going to feel like—if you're somebody who's trying to help other people learn how to sew, then of course you're going to feel a little bit like, what the heck am I doing here every once in a while? But for me, it helps to just remember that that's totally normal, no matter what level you're at. Always and forever.

Haley
I saw this silly little video, and I shared it with Meg because we had a discussion about imposter syndrome, and it was like, “So you're telling me that you in your mind think that you tricked people into thinking that you're good. So even if in this make-believe world where you tricked people into thinking you're good, you still are doing well enough that you tricked them. So it doesn't really make any sense.”

I'm like, yeah, that's so true. I'm probably doing a bad job summarizing it, but entertaining nonetheless.

Sarai
Yeah, I just think it's normal. All right, let's go to question number two. Now they got that big one out of the way. This one is fun. What's your guilty pleasure soundtrack when you're sewing? The one you turn off your public Spotify playlist for?

What’s your guilty pleasure soundtrack while you’re sewing?

Haley
Okay, so two things. First, I didn't know you can turn that off on Spotify.

Sarai
I didn't know either. I don't think anybody follows me on Spotify, so…

Haley
Revelations. And then two is that I don't believe in guilty pleasures, because I don't believe in associating guilt with pleasure.

Why would I mix those two? All of my pleasures are pleasurable.

So I guess I'll answer it more like, what's something silly or random? I don't know. You know what? I do. One of my favorite silly hype-myself-up songs is the song Peanut Butter by RuPaul. Big Frida is also on that song. If you haven't heard it before, go listen to it, and then maybe think about me a little bit differently. But it's a good, like, hype-myself-up, get-some-energy-going song.

Sarai
Oh, I have a lot of hype-myself-up songs. Those aren't the songs I tend to choose when I'm sewing, though, for the most part. To me, it's not like a super high energy activity. More of, I don't know, using my brain activity, maybe.

But I don't feel like I have a lot of guilty pleasure music that I listen to. I'm pretty unashamed about the music I listen to. I guess one thing that I find a little bit embarrassing is how much I'll listen to the same album over and over again. As you know, Haley, and as probably many people listening know, if you've been listening for a while, I'm a huge Bruce Springsteen fan, and it is embarrassing, like, how much I'll listen to Born in the USA over and over and over again. I am the kind of person who, if I love an album, I can just listen to it almost infinitum.

Haley
I love that. It’s always funny when you're used to listening to an album in its entirety and then you randomly on the radio or Spotify hear one of the songs and then start singing the song that comes next on the album.

Sarai
I do that too, always. Or one that's next in your playlist. It immediately pops into your head. Other than that, I listen to a lot of, like, 80s synth-pop kind of stuff when I'm trying to get my energy up, which is also not embarrassing to me. That's what I like.

Haley
Don't mix your guilt and your pleasure. Keep them separate.

Sarai
It is embarrassing how much I will listen to Bruce Springsteen, though.

Haley
Mix it up, girl. I respect it.

Sarai
All right, when do you feel most creative, Haley? The next question.

When do you feel the most creative?

Haley
That is a really good question. I describe myself as, like, a compulsively creative person. I think that it's actually almost a bad thing sometimes, because I'm just constantly in, like, ideation mode. It kind of depends on what I'm doing. If I am working on coming up with a design concept, on sketching, on things like that, I find myself most creative when I'm in my own space, alone, door closed, just in the zone.

But if I'm working on writing or coming up with ideas for the podcast or YouTube, like a brainstorm scenario, I need that, like back and forth. But yeah, I guess it kind of depends. Kind of depends. Maybe it's a bad answer.

Sarai
Well, it's interesting you say that. I'm reading a book right now. It's, I guess, a business book. It's called Idea Flow, and it is about coming up with ideas and managing the flow of ideas, like in a business context mostly. But I just read a chapter about brainstorming and they were talking about the fact that it's a good idea to have both, to have ideas in collaboration with others, but also have time set aside to come up with your own flow of ideas and that it's not really one or the other.

You have to have both because other people can expand your thinking a lot, which I think in a business context, obviously that is applicable. I think it's applicable in hobbies, too, and in sewing, because you think about all the creative ideas you might have on your own.

But then when you become part of a community, when you engage with others, whether that's through Seamwork or if it's on social media, or if it's on some other forum you participate in, or with friends in-person, it can kind of expand your thinking about a lot of things. Not just like learning the nuts and bolts, but also getting ideas and getting feedback and reactions and having people to share things with.

I think it can really make you feel a lot more creative.

Haley
Yeah, that's such a good point. You know, what I forgot to mention is the shower. I'm really creative in the shower and I'm really creative in the morning. I always drive Charley to daycare, and when I'm driving back home, I always have really good ideas. And sometimes I'll dictate them to my phone and send them as a message to like, whoever the sometimes it's an idea for me, sometimes it's an idea for someone else.

Sarai
Yeah.

Haley
And so, Meg in particular is used to getting these just, like, really long messages from me. I have this idea for a YouTube video.

Sarai
I don't use that feature as much as I would like, but I downloaded an app that I cannot remember the name of right now, but I'll put it in the show notes too, once I look at my phone. But it's an app for taking voice memos like that. And then you can make kind of like outlines of them within the app so you can put ideas together that you have at different times and even maps them so it's attached to where you were at that point in time. It's kind of interesting. I've used it a little bit, not a lot.

I think it's really important to have a place to put things when they come to you, because I find that ideas will just leave my head if I don't write them down.

In that book, actually. They mentioned that they make pads of paper that you can suction cup to the wall of your shower that are waterproof, so you can jot down your shower ideas.

Haley
You need one of those. Because I feel like we sit down to meetings all the time, and you're like, “So I had an idea in the shower.”

Sarai
Well, I think it's an interesting phenomenon because it's when you're the most relaxed. Well, maybe not the most relaxed, but I don't know what it is about the shower. You're relaxed, but you're also doing things with your hands, and you're not just laying there or sitting there.

Haley
You’re not intentionally engaging your mind in something. You don't have your phone, you're not reading a book. You're just very present in the moment.

Sarai
Yeah. I identify with the shower thoughts thing, and then I think I also feel most creative, there’s a few times, I think when I'm writing anything, even it's a note, but especially if it's putting thoughts together in a more coherent way that really helps me to think through ideas. So I feel very creative doing that.

Lately, making videos, I feel, is very creatively fulfilling for me. I'm really enjoying making videos. It's really hard work, but it's something that gets me into that flow state, for sure, where time just goes by really fast. I'm constantly on my toes while I'm doing it. It's really fun. And I guess it's the mix of storytelling and improv and also doing something I'm familiar with, which is sewing. It's really fun for me. And then, like you said, brainstorming with other people is always a great time. We always come up with a million ideas that way.

Haley
Yeah.

Sarai
We have such a creative group of people at work. It's really fun to have that because you're constantly feeding off each other and building on each other's idea.
Haley
Such a relief when you are feeling like a husk of a person. You're like, “I can't I'm so stuck on this. I don't know.” To have that, like, community of people to, like, tap into and schedule a meeting and just, like, bounce ideas. It's great.

Sarai
Yeah. And it's nice to actually look forward to meetings because you feel like problems are going to get solved, and we're going to talk about things and come up with some new ideas, and it's going to be fun rather than, you know, status reports and things like that.

Well, we've only got through three questions of the twelve I have here. But we're we're going to plow through. So what's your sewing Achilles’ heel?

What’s your sewing Achilles’ Heel?

Haley
Bar tacks.

Sarai
Bar tacks? Really?

Haley
You know what? It's not that I suck them or something. I feel like I always end up having to, whenever you do bar tacks, usually when you do bar tacks, you have to do like, a bunch of them and then you want them to all be the same, and I'm really hard on myself. I always end up ripping them out, which is a pain, in the butt.

Sarai
You know what I always hate doing is—this is fresh in my mind since I did it yesterday. But when you have to sew the waistband on, like, a pair of pants or a skirt or something, and you have to topstitch the outside and catch the inner waistband on the inside and make it look good.

That never comes out perfectly the first time. I feel like you always have to fix something.

Haley
Yeah. There's always, like, a weird pinch on the wrong side or the fabric slips and doesn't catch.

Sarai
Or you just didn't use enough pins. Unless you really take the time and baste it, I feel like that's always, for me, something that takes longer than it seems like it should.

Haley
Yeah.

Sarai
All right. Question number five. How do you balance artistic expression with commercial demands or customer expectations? That's a that's a good question.

How do you balance artistic expression with commercial demands or customer expectations?

Haley
That is a very good question. I think as a pattern designer, something that I've had to learn is that design, of course, is an artistic expression. But when you're designing for a customer, when you're designing for a brand, you need to put those needs first.

It's really important to have these outside places where I can put my creativity that's not my job, because otherwise, I think that I would be designing for myself personally and my own personal preferences, and that's just not the way it works when you design for a brand.

You have your brand identity to take into consideration. There's always from a practical standpoint, the number. What do people buy? What do they download? What are people saying? All the feedback. And so you have to kind of input all of those things and remove yourself a little bit from the situation.

So I try not to derive my personal artistic expression from my work as a designer. I obviously put love and thought into that, but yeah, just keeping them separate is, the best thing you can do if you're in that situation.

Sarai
The way I think of it is, there's an artistic element to the design process, but it's not art in in the purest sense, in which you're creating something that is purely an expression of an idea or a way of being or a way of seeing the world, which is what, I think, the function that art serves.

I think there are parts of that that come into the design process that are important, really important for the design process, but I don't think that is synonymous with the design process, which is more about people. Satisfying the needs or desires of a community of people.

Haley
Yeah. And the other thing that's interesting about designing patterns as opposed to ready-to-wear clothing is that you are leaving the second half up to the customer. So you're, in some senses, giving them a template for their own artistic expression. It's such a different medium, really.

Sarai
Yeah. Totally agree there.

All right, the next one. This is also a good question for you, Haley. How do you stay up to date with trends, and how do you incorporate them into your work? This is more a question for you than for me.

How do you stay up to date with trends, and how do you incorporate them into your work?

Haley
I have a good answer to this, and I think that people could apply it to their own personal style.

So how I stay up to date on trends is that, of course, I look at what's in ready-to-wear, but I think it's really important to look at the higher-end stuff. Fashion has a trickle down effect, so if you're looking at what's on runways or in high-end clothing stores, that's where trends trickle down into first.

You have to look at it with this really wide lens and see what the themes are. Of course, there's, like, forecasting companies. You can spend a lot of money and see what they're going to say the big trends are. But a lot of times, you're looking at runway stuff and you're like, this is not relatable. I can't imagine wearing this. But its elements and details that trickle down in fabrics and colors, of course.

Trying to look at that stuff with a wide lens with no judgment and just noticing the patterns that you see. So that could be like pleats, blouses with yokes, big exaggerated collars. That's how I stay on top of trends.

It's just kind of a constant thing that I have to engage with.

And then how to incorporate them is that when you're working for a brand, you have to know and be very dedicated and intimately acquainted with the brand identity, because everything is going to be filtered through that. And if you do that, then you're able to cherry-pick the trends that make the most sense.

So Seamwork has—I would say that our, like, design lens—it’s practical. It's something that you can reach for every day, but there's a softness and a femininity to it. There's small, special details that make the everyday feel special. So it's not big and bold. It's not over the top. I think that there's a subtlety to it. So when I see a trend that aligns with that, then I know that that's something that we have to jump on, and may have a really good home in our catalog.

Sarai
And like you were saying about patterns versus ready to wear, it also has to be something that can be taken in a lot of different directions totally. So that people can use it as a tool to express themselves and not have it just be this kind of monolithic thing that you—like a trend that's just out there in the world, and you have to incorporate into your wardrobe. It's something that you can interpret in your own way.

Haley
Yeah, totally. And I think that the way you can incorporate this into your own life is—honing in on your own sense of personal identity and personal style helps you to decide when you see a trend and you think it's really exciting and fun, whether that's for you or that's just fun for someone else.

Sarai
Yeah, that can be hard sometimes. I find it difficult sometimes to differentiate, and I feel like I have a pretty strong sense of my own style, and I'm not that influenced by trends, except yeah, maybe like, larger trends that last for years, but not so much like the season to season trends for me. But even then, sometimes I'm like, do I just like this because I'm seeing it everywhere right now? Or is this something that really is true to my own style and that can be tricky sometimes.

What is the hardest part of your job?

Haley
I would say the hardest part of my job as a designer, maybe this will be a controversial opinion—Eric and I talk about this a lot. My husband is an architect, so he works in design as well—Is that creative work and the work of a designer, it seems like it's one of those things that everyone thinks they can do better than you.

Sarai
Oh, yeah.

Haley
People have really big opinions about it. You have to develop kind of a thick skin for it and have a good understanding that people's opinions are just that—they’re opinions. And I have one and you have one, and everyone has one.

So I think that that can be the most kind of, like, emotionally draining, because sometimes it can feel like everyone's pointing a finger at you, saying you're not good at your job. And I don't think that's, like, the case for a lot of things. I wouldn't, go, I'm trying to think of a good example of this. I wouldn't go to the bookkeeper and be like, no, no, no, no.

Maybe that's just me, though. Maybe some people do that.

Sarai
I might do that.

Haley
I think that I tend to respect people's professional opinions of things, so I think that can be a little bit wearing. But I've learned to cope, and it doesn't really bug me as much as it used to.

Sarai
Well, how do you handle that when you specifically are asking for feedback? Because in that case, it must be hard to pull apart what is just somebody's random opinion based on their own preferences versus what is a good point that might apply to more people?

Haley
I think that the way I pull that apart is when I'm seeking feedback, I actually have, like, a very thick skin for feedback. I love it. I love when we get it. I think that the way that I can distinguish between someone's opinion or a small group of people's opinion is just, like, the volume.

And I do keep track of all of that kind of stuff. So if I'm seeing the same thing over and over and over, I'm like, okay, this has weight to it.

But if one person on Instagram is like, “I would never wear that, that's the most unflattering thing I've ever seen. What are you thinking?” I'm like, okay, obviously they're having big feelings about this, and that's okay. They're entitled to those big feelings. So it's usually, like, the volume of it, and I try to look at it objectively as I can and pull out, even in that moment where I'm like, this person is having big feelings, what does she mean by “unflattering,” and trying to get to the root of what they're saying. Look past the insult.

Sarai
Yeah. Well, I wondered also within the team, because you're always asking for feedback on designs within the team or always having sessions on that. And I hear a lot of differing opinions in those meetings, which is great, but it must be hard to kind of sort through what is real. Well, not real, opinions are real, but you know what I mean.

Haley
I think that, again, going back to the brand identity is like, okay, yes, I see what that person is saying, but maybe they have really different style than what our brand identity is and that you have to use that as your North Star.

And also, people's opinions are weighted differently in different ways. If a pattern maker tells me that they think something is going to be very challenging for people to fit or for us to fit, then I take that quite seriously.

Sarai
Yeah. I think when you're getting opinions and ideas from people in a context like that, it's so important to recognize that some people have more authority in certain areas than others. Some people are experts in one area, some people are experts in another area. And that not all opinions are all important, but they're not equally weighted necessarily, depending on experience.

Haley
I agree with that. I'm curious about you. What is the hardest part of your job?

Sarai
So one of the things that has changed in the last six months or so is that we hired Elki. She's basically our operations person. She's kind of my other half now at work and takes care of a lot of the things that I used to have to take care of. And that has taken a lot off of my shoulders in terms of my workload, but also emotionally off my shoulders because I'm not flitting from project to project and meeting to meeting and never having time to think. So a lot of the stuff that used to be really hard for me has gone away in the last six months, which has freed me up to be a lot more creative and a lot more, I think, forward-thinking about the future, which is awesome. I think the thing that I still struggle with sometimes is kind of like, I have these big projects that I really love working on, like video stuff right now or just thinking about the business and coming up with new ideas. But then there are a lot of little tasks that people ask me to do throughout the week that are like, oh, I need some quick feedback on this, or, I need you to write a paragraph about this.

And they're all really small things, but there's just a lot of them. So I feel like I'm disappointing people a lot of the time because it'll take me two weeks to do, like, a really basic thing that they asked me to do.

Haley
Yeah.

Sarai
So I think that's the hardest part right now for me is just kind of feeling like I'm constantly disappointing people or not doing what they're asking me to do.

Haley
Yeah, that's a real thing. Well, if it makes you feel better, I'm always making people wait a long time.

Sarai
I think people are really understanding about it, and I don't think they're actually disappointed. I think they know that they're asking me for something small, and I have a lot of other stuff going on. So in my mind, I know it's not really the case, and I try to always set expectations and let people know.

Haley
Yeah.

Sarai
But anyway, that's the thing that's kind of, that I struggle with right now.

How do you measure the success of your creative work?

Haley
I think that the success of pattern design as creative work is that if people are able to take it and do really creative things of their own with it. If everybody's doing the exact same thing with it, then I feel like maybe a little bit less successful with it. So I love when our patterns are able to help people's creative visions come to life. So that's how I measure it.

Sarai
Yeah. For me, I think it depends on how you define creative work. Yes. So there's a couple of things. There's creative work, as in my professional work, and then there's my creative work outside of the professional realm.

And I think in my creative work, in the professional realm, within Seamwork, a couple of things that combine for me, which are the quantitative and the qualitative. So the quantitative being the numbers. I'm a big numbers person, as you know, Haley.

Haley
Yes. She is.

Sarai
I have a lot of numbers I keep track of and lots of dashboards. And I use that to just gauge where things are at all times. And I think that's important.

But I think the more important thing is to recognize the people behind the numbers and that this is just one way of looking at all the people that we're serving. And I think the qualitative part, which is getting feedback, hearing what people have to say, listening to suggestions, actively seeking out suggestions. Not just like, feedback, feedback. But just think, what are people making? What are they enjoying? How do they feel about it, those kinds of things. We do a lot in that area, and so I feel like those are the two tools that we use the most.

But I think outside of work, I do a lot of creative things, too, or what I consider creative things. And for that, I guess, in my mind, I don't really frame it in terms of success necessarily, but I guess if you were to use that word, it's more just about how it makes me feel.

Do I feel fulfilled doing this? Am I enjoying the process of doing it? Is it still expressing something that I feel needs to be expressed?

Haley
Yeah.

Sarai
Like, I don't think creative work is always pleasurable. Sometimes it's hard and not fun to do necessarily. So it's not just about it being fun, but also about thinking about it in terms of psychological needs, I guess. Is it fulfilling the psychological needs they have for learning, for mastery, for growing, for self-expression? So that's kind of how I try to think about it.

Haley
Yeah. I think for your personal creative pursuits, for me at least, it's really important that I don't, like, hold a ruler to it. I just let it ebb and flow and kind of blossom in the way that it wants to be and focus more on my enjoyment and the things that I'm gaining when it's not enjoyable, like knowledge and all of that good stuff.

Sarai
Yeah. I think that's such a tricky balance, though, because sometimes you need a little bit of a push for yourself or like, a structure.

With my sewing lately, I'm finding that because I did the Design Your Wardrobe process for the spring and I'm documenting it all on YouTube and trying to make videos of it every couple of weeks, having that framework around it really motivates me to keep going. But there's a point at which it could become work and not feel fun anymore. So I think that's true in the outside of work context, too.

Or sometimes it's helpful for me to have, like, well, I have a weekly ritual of doing this, but it's easy for that to become just another to-do item. So I think it's just a matter of checking in with yourself.

Haley
I agree. You have to see where you are in that moment and what you need. The same way you listen to your body when you're hungry. All of those things you kind of, like, need to listen—follow your heart.

Sarai
And that's a good metaphor. I was just telling Haley before we started recording that I feel hungry all the time lately. I just can't stop eating, and I'm not sure why, but I've been listening to it.

Haley
I always tell Charley, good job listening to your body, when she needs to use the toilet or is hungry. And now she started telling me that, too. She catches me coming out of the bathroom or eating something. She's like, “Good job listening to your body, mom.” I'm like, thank you.

Sarai
That's sweet. I wish I had somebody to tell me that every time I had a snack.

Haley
She's like, my hype person.

Sarai
Yeah, that's amazing. You know, that just goes to show you, you give positive reinforcement to somebody, and it comes right back to you.

Haley
Totally tenfold.

Sarai
That's awesome.

Well, the next question, I think this one is for me, but you can answer it too, Haley, if you want, which is how is Seamwork different than your original vision of it?

How is Seamwork different than your original vision of it?

Sarai
So my original vision of Seamwork, I guess it was pretty different in some ways. So originally, Seamwork was conceptualized as a digital magazine with patterns. So I was thinking of, I don't know if this is even still around. I don't think so. But the newsstand used to have Vogue Pattern magazine, and it would just be basically like pictures of the patterns, which you could buy separately, I believe.

And I guess that was sort of an idea I riffed on. And I think Burda actually had patterns in the magazine, so there were, like, paper magazines that had patterns with them. And then I was thinking of also, like, Japanese sewing books that come with patterns, things like that.

And I thought, well, let's create a digital version of it where we have new content every month, and we create patterns that go with it every month. And to some extent, that's still the concept. We're still creating two patterns every month and creating lots of cool content around those patterns.

But it's drifted away from the idea of a magazine and more towards a community. And that was just kind of a natural evolution based on what I saw people's needs were at the time. We just made changes very gradually and brought in new features that we thought people would want. And it's become this really vibrant community.

It's just this really awesome, self-sustaining, positive place where people can share their projects and talk to each other and get help and support and do things together related to sewing. So I think that's the main way that it's changed.

So in some ways, it's the same. In some ways, it's different.

Haley
Yeah, that's how I think of the evolution of Seamwork as well, is that it used to be this very one-way thing that we were like, “here is this product,” and now it's just so much more of like a living thing. We have input from our community. We have the community aspect. It's just so much more like vibrant and living than it was before, than we could have imagined, I think. Than I could have imagined.

Sarai
And it's interesting because one thing we talk about within the company is that a lot of people come to Seamwork because of the patterns. That's the reason they join, because it's a good deal and they want to do more sewing. They like the patterns or maybe they want to join in with Design Your Wardrobe and design their wardrobe for a season. But it's usually that product aspect of it that people resonate with first.

But then once they become part of Seamwork, once they get involved in the community, that's the part I think people are often the most excited about.

Haley
Totally.

Sarai
That is the most fulfilling for them. That's not something I think people always recognize from the outside. Community is just the kind of thing you have to experience to really know. Okay, the next question might be hard to answer, or maybe not.

The next question is, has there been a life event that's shaped your work?

Has there been a life event that's shaped your work?

Haley
Well, so all of my life events have shaped my work. I think that more recently, this is kind of like in line with the evolution of Seamwork that we just talked about too, is that, I don't have contact with my mom. That's just like a part of my life. There's some big personal reasons where it's not healthy for me to have her in my life. And I think that has really shown me the importance of chosen family and community-building. And that's just become so much more important to me—the people I surround myself with and the communities that I engage in.

Before I think if you would have asked me the most important thing of what I do, it would have been maybe like a little more two-dimensional. Like, what? Making pretty things and teaching people. That's always been important to me, of course. But now the most important thing to me and what I do is helping people to connect with people that are like them. Helping people to not feel alone in a very solitary type of craft and just like helping people find their people. I think that's so important.

So that's been a big thing that shaped my work in the last few years.

Sarai
Yeah, I think for both of us that's become more and more a focus of our work. It's one reason we even have this podcast. And the podcast is one of the most absolutely, like, joy-giving parts of my work.

Haley
Yeah, it's fun.

Sarai
And I think that both of our life experiences have kind of taken us in that direction over the last few years.

Haley
For sure.

Sarai
For me, a couple of things come to mind. The first one is a very positive one, which is my grandmother teaching me how to sew in the first place was obviously a huge influence on where my life eventually went. That's kind of an obvious one. I think like you, and I think this is true for a lot of people, especially as you get older, you tend to have things happen in life and that can really cause you to second guess the things you thought were important.

For me, I hesitate to talk about this in too much detail, but we had a death in our family a couple of years ago, a few years ago, more than a couple. And it was an unexpected death of someone very, very young. And that was a really difficult experience in our family. And it also kind of reframed a lot of the way I see my relationships with other people and the importance of other people and not just getting support from other people and having that support network when things go wrong, but being there for other people when they need it and building those relationships so that there is that safety net for everyone.

And so, like you, the idea of community has become really, really important to me. And not just community, but friendship, and really taking care of people and being generous with people always, and being kind.

And I won't say, like, I was such an awful person before this.

Haley
Yeah, you suck.

Sarai
I hope not, but I think I was definitely more focused on the success of the business overall, and I'm sure there was a lot of ego wrapped up in that, and of course, that's still really important to me. But the reason behind it is very different now. I want the best for everyone. I want the best for the people we serve. I want the best for especially the employees who have worked so hard and been in the business with me for so long, a lot of them, and really care, and it's as much theirs as it is mine.
And I feel like that has become so much more clear to me through trauma and dealing with it in the aftermath of that.

So that was hard to talk about. We're both sitting here with tears in our eyes. So sorry if our voices start cracking now.

Sarai
All right, we're going to switch gears. The next question, which is, Haley, do you still buy fast fashion?

Do you still buy fast fashion?

Haley
I have whiplash.

Sarai
Like, what? Now we're going to talk about H&M.

Haley
On occasion, I do. I think that fast fashion is what is accessible to so many people. So I try not to, like, villainize it. And I do occasionally indulge in fast fashion.

Most of my fast fashion, I will say, is secondhand. But I do buy new sometimes, and I just give myself permission to do that because, first of all, I have a kid. I can't sew everything that they need. I also can't buy, like—I just am not like, a money tree. I can't buy too small for everything that she has.

But yeah, I just think that it's like recognizing that it's how you use fast fashion that can be really problematic. And then respecting those garments once they are in your wardrobe and not treating them like they're disposable, I think that's how I try to approach it, at least.

Sarai
Yeah. And also buying things that, like you said, that aren't going to be treated as disposable, but that you believe that you're going to have for a long time, both in terms of quality and style. Because I feel like even within fast fashion, there's a huge difference in different garments. Some things quality is not bad and sometimes it is. So I think that's something to take.

I buy it occasionally and it depends on how you define fast fashion. Like, I'll buy T shirts from Everlane and I don't know, I guess that's kind of fast fashion. I know we don't have to go into that, but I think the lines have blurred in the last ten years between what is and what isn't.

But like you, I buy a lot of secondhand stuff. I'd say most of my closet is either secondhand or made by me, and I think that's a good way to kind of reuse stuff that would otherwise go to a landfill. So I feel okay about that. So I try not to. And I'm really trying to think a lot more about how much I actually need. And if I'm not willing to make something—there are things that I just don't make, I just buy them.

I just buy jeans for the most part, although I'm making the Chelsea jeans pretty soon, but for the most part. And I try to buy high-quality stuff there, but I occasionally do indulge, so I'm kind of the same as you.

And the last question, I know we're going kind of long on this one. This is the last question before we wrap up. Where do you see Seamwork five years from now?

Where do you see Seamwork five years from now?

I'm interested to hear yours before I say mine.

Haley
Is this a test? I would say, we've talked so much about the community aspect of Seamwork and I really see that as the future of what we do and just continuing to invest in that aspect of Seamwork as a brand. I think that more online events, in-person events, that kind of thing can really be the future of Seamwork and helping people in new and creative ways, helping people to find their people.

Sarai
Yeah, I agree with that. I think the community is only going to keep growing and I think we have a lot of ideas for ways we can innovate in that area, which is really exciting. I think the other area that I see us growing in in the next few years is just the kinds of content we're making.

This podcast is a good example, but I think creating more personal and story-driven and really interesting, fun, different content where we're just being ourselves rather than always being the teacher, which I think is fun too. But I think not always having to play the expert and just being yourself sometimes and connecting with people on that human level is also really important to me personally.

So I see more of that in the next five years. I feel like there was a period in time where—I don't spend time on social media, really, except for YouTube, because I love YouTube. But there was definitely a period of time where I was like, I don't really want this company to be about me. And I don't want my face to be like, what people think of when they think of the company, because it's not about me.

And I still kind of feel that way a little bit, but I also, just like all the things we've been talking about, I also feel it's really important to have that human connection with people, and so that has changed a lot for me, and I see that kind of continuing to grow.

Haley
Well, it's something you kind of have to model for people. If you want to foster that connection through Seamwork, then there does feel like an obligation to share that in some way with the world and connect with people on a mass scale.

Sarai
Yeah. And I think it's about finding what works for you, because I think in the past, I've felt with social media, like, this very me-me-me culture that I don't jive with, and so that has turned me off a lot. But I feel like I've found ways through podcasting and writing and video where I feel like I can really express ideas and thoughts about who I am, without just being like, I don't know what, the want-to-be influencer or something. I don't know.

Haley
Totally. I got you. A selfie machine.

Sarai
I'm trying not to disparage anybody, of course, social media, because I think most people use it probably in a pretty healthy way, but it's hard when you have a business, like, finding that right line for yourself. So I feel like I've finally found that, and I feel like that's going to be a really fun thing to keep growing in the company.

Haley
That was a lot.

Sarai
Yeah.

Haley
All right, so I want to know what was the most surprising thing that you learned about me from this episode?

What’s the most surprising thing you learned this episode?

Sarai
Well, it was not the RuPaul thing I knew that.

Haley
Basic Haley data.

Sarai
What's the most surprising thing I learned about you? I feel like I know a lot about you, Haley, but I would say I was really interested to hear your perspective on getting feedback and how you kind of sort through that, because I don't know that's something we've explicitly talked about.

I mean, obviously, I know what your process is, but I don't think, like, how you feel about it and how you kind of separate the wheat from the chaff is something that we had really talked about. So I think, I wouldn't say surprising, but I would say really interesting.

Haley
I'm trying to think of what's surprising. I don't know if I was surprised.

Sarai
Maybe we should have made this a different question.

Haley
I know I just asked a different question. I really enjoyed hearing you talk about Seamwork five years from now. I'm glad we're on the same page.

Sarai
Yeah. What if you had said, it's going to be like a company that makes protein bars and workout videos or something?

Haley
We're going to help you get super small. I would have been like, okay…

Sarai
I’ll keep that as a side hustle.

Haley
Let's talk about that later.

Sarai
That is like one of—not making protein bars—but that would be like one of my, you know, you have these alternate careers in your head that like, well, if I hadn't done this, what would I have done? And I think, like, being a personal trainer would be kind of fun. Like helping women get swole. I think that would have been really fun.

Haley
It would be really cool. I would totally hire you.

Well, if you just have not gotten enough of all of these questions and you want to have some questions of your own, you should go check out our Sewing quiz. It is a free quiz that you can take online on our website to learn what kind of sewist you are based on your unique goals and your personality.

It helps you to identify what's most important to you about sewing right now, and it gives you lots of suggestions on what you should make or what you could learn. It only takes about two minutes and it's fun.

I mean, who doesn't love a quiz?

Sarai
I love quizzes.

Haley
You can find it at seamwork.com/quiz. And if you liked this episode, we would love if you left us a review. We have a review today from Stitch Zavi, and they write, “Topics are super interesting and refreshing. I love the format for an advanced beginner like me. It's really helpful. The icebreakers are so much fun.”

I'm glad you liked the Icebreakers, and I'm sorry that we skipped them today.

Sarai
Well, kind of, but we also sort of did an entire episode of Icebreakers.

Haley
Yeah. So I hope you really liked this episode.

Reviews are great, and they help us to make sure that we're on track. We're making stuff that you like, and it helps other people to find us. So if you have time, write a review, give us a thumbs up, put some stars. You know the drill.

You could also follow us on YouTube at Seamworkvideo on Instagram, at Seamwork. And if you'd like to join Seamwork and become part of our private community that we talked a lot about today, plus, get access to hundreds of sewing patterns in dozens of sewalong classes, podcast listeners get 50% off. That's a lifetime discount when you join at seamwork.com/go/podcast 50.
Sarai
All right, thank you for joining us this week and listening to all of our chitchat about these deep topics. Some of them not so deep, some of them deep. All right. I'm Sarai,

Haley
And I'm Haley.