Show Notes

Zen Mind, Beginner’s Mind, by Shunryū Suzuki.
How to Overcome a Fabric Fail: Sarai helps you figure out what to do when you pick out the wrong color of fabric for your project.
[The Joss pants]((https://www.seamwork.com/catalog/joss)
What’s Your Learning Style?: There are 2 different approaches to learning—the ambitious learner and the cautious learner. This episode of the podcast explores both.
What Can You Learn From Niche Sewing?
* Podcast listeners get half off an unlimited Seamwork membership when you use this link, plus you get to keep that price as long as you’re a member!
* Tell us your idea for the next icebreakers for makers!

PODCAST TRANSCRIPT

Sarai
You. I'm Sarai.

Haley
And I'm Haley.

Sarai
And this is Seamwork Radio. Welcome back to Seamwork Radio, where we share practical ideas for building a creative process so you can sew with intention and joy. And today we're talking about how to hold on to that creative sparkle you have when you're a beginner at something. And we're going to cover the benefits of being a beginner, why the beginner sparkle fades over time, and how to tap into it again.

All right, Haley, we're going to start with our icebreaker for today, which is when was the last time you accidentally made something ugly?

Haley
I love this question. I also came up with this question. So, of course, I love it. Just a couple of weeks ago, Sienna and I filmed the sewalong for the Rhett jacket, and I pulled this green brushed canvas out of my stash. I was like, this will be great. And it's something I already have. I'm really winning here. But I didn't have green cone thread to serge my seams with, and so I was like, oh, you know what will look really cute is gold. I'll use gold.

Sarai
Like metallic gold?

Haley
No, like mustardy gold, like denim-topstitching-thread gold. So I was like, yeah, that'll be cool. And then as soon as we started filming and I started surging scenes, I was like, this is straigh- up leprechaun. Straight-up leprechaun. I don't know if that counts as ugly. I haven't made something truly ugly in a while.

When I was pregnant, I made a brown sweatshirt for myself, and I cut it extra long so that I could hem it, adjust it on my body. And when I tried it on, it made me cry because I thought I looked like Friar Tuck.

Haley
I was like, I don't want this. And I think I gave the fabric to Sienna. I'm like, she loves brown. It's very on-brand for her. But I look like Friar Tuck, and I'm not having it.

Sarai
Friar Tuck and a leprechaun. I think you should wear them together.

Haley
It's gone. It's so long gone. I don't keep things in my life that make me cry.

Sarai
That's probably a good policy, I think.

Haley
So what about you? When did you make something ugly last?

Sarai
Well, the thing that comes to mind, actually, it didn't turn out that ugly, but we recently I made a YouTube video about these pants. It might be out by the time this podcast gets released. So if you want to see it, you can go to YouTube. It actually also has a little bit of a leprechaun theme. Not a leprechaun, but a gnome. And you'll see what I mean if you watch the video.

But I bought this fabric. I wanted to make some Joss pants, which, if you're not familiar with the pattern, it's like a pull-on pair of wide-leg pants, like super comfy. It's got big pockets. And I thought it would look really chic in, like, a camel color. So I went to Mill End, and I bought this camel colored rayon twill. And the fabric is really nice, but when I got it home, I don't know. Did I mention this on the podcast already? When I got it home, it just looked like the same color as my skin, almost exactly.

Haley
Background to this is that Mill End is awesome, but historically, has really weird lighting.

Sarai
Yeah, very weird lighting. They have fluorescent—we definitely have talked about the lighting at Mill End. They have fluorescent lights and skylights. So it depends on where you stand in the store, like, what color you're looking at.

And it was so close to my skin color. It matches my foundation. I show it in the video. It matches my foundation almost exactly. So I was really afraid it was going to look like I wasn't wearing pants when I put these on. And the gnome comes into this, and you'll see why if you watch the video, but I don't know how I feel about them, to be honest. I wouldn't say ugly, but I would say questionable.

Haley
Unfortunate.

Sarai
Yeah. I'm just not too sure if I like wearing these. These things happen.

Haley
Well, they're rayon, so they should take dye.

Sarai
Oh, true. Yeah. I could maybe do them a darker I still like the idea of having a camel pair, so we can do them a darker camel.

Haley
Do some, like, avocado pits or something. Like, bring a little pink in, maybe.

Sarai
A little bit pinker. I don't know. My skin is a little pink in it. Might just make it even closer.

Haley
Maybe I'm sabotaging you. I don't know.

Sarai
So, yeah, that's the last thing I made there. I was like, I thought the fabric looked kind of not so great, but I made it anyway, so just to see how it would come out. And I'm still not too sure. So, yeah. I don't know. That's the last kind of ugly thing I made. This is a good question. Good one, Haley.

If you have an icebreaker for us for a future episode, you should let us know. If you're a member, you can go to Seamwork.com/go/icebreakers. And that'll take you to a thread on our community where you can leave your idea for a future icebreaker, and we'll probably use it on the show.

All right, let's get into our topic for today. So we were kind of thinking about this quote that comes from this book called Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind by Shunryū Suzuki, and it's an amazing book. It's a very short book. I listen to it as an audiobook, and it's only, like, 3 hours. If you listen to it as an audiobook, I highly recommend it.

But in this book, there's a really famous quote, and he says, “In the beginner's mind, there are many possibilities, but in the experts, there are few.”

And so that's kind of what we're talking about today. I think beginners have this sort of inherent optimism, don't you think, Haley?

Haley
Yeah, definitely. That quote really makes me think of the quote from Mean Girls. “The limit does not exist.” In a beginner's mind, I feel like that's, like, very true.

Sarai
Yes, that's totally true. I think these two quotes from Master Suzuki and Mean Girls have a lot in common.

Haley
Mean Girls is deep.

Sarai
Yeah, very deep. So where does that beginner's sparkle go? And then how can you find it again? That’s what we're really talking about today. So how do you think? Haley the beginner sewist’s approach varies from the advanced sewer’s approach.

Haley
So I think I want to use an example from when I used to work in a fabric store. So when I would work in a fabric store, I would feel like my students I also taught there, and I'd have these students who were fairly advanced. Like, we're making pretty complicated things. And they would come in and look through the pattern catalog and be like, “Oh, gosh, I don't know if I can make this button-up.” And I'm like, you know how to sew seams, you know how to do topstitching. You have all the ingredients. You just have to put it all together.

And I think that's because they have a good understanding of the challenges that different projects can entail. They're coming at it from, I don't want to say realistic, because sometimes I don't think it's totally realistic, but they're coming at it from a place where they've had some failures, and they don't want to do that again and maybe a little place of judgment on themselves.

And then on the other hand, you have beginners that come in, and they're, like, pulling all these bolts of fabric, and they're like, “I'm going to make a bridesmaid's dress. I have never sewn, and I'm borrowing someone's machine from their storage unit that hasn't been run in 20 years.”

And you're like, “Oh, okay!”

On one hand, those people sometimes set themselves up for disappointment, and then on the other hand, sometimes they walk in a few months later, and they're like, thanks for helping me pick fabric. Let me show you the pictures from the wedding. And you're like, wow, you did it. You really pulled that off.

There's just this blind confidence that I think is really magical with beginner.

Sarai
Do you think that's interesting? Because it seems like the logical thing would be that you would gain confidence as you gain skill. And I think that is true to some extent. But in some cases, or in some ways, I think certain people tend to lose confidence as they figure out what they're doing.

Haley
And I really, actually, now that I think about it, I think that it's more of this maybe more intermediate-level conundrum, because I think you do come out of the other side of it eventually where you’re, like, you've tackled enough challenges that you're like, I mean, I can figure out anything. That's how I feel at this point. Have I sewn x y or z before? No, but I could figure it out. So yeah, I definitely think it's interesting. Counterintuitive.

Sarai
Yeah. But I see that I don't think it's true necessarily for everybody who's a beginner. I think some beginners are definitely—we’ve talked about this in other episodes before—but there are some beginners who are much more, I don't want to say timid, I feel like that word has too much judgment in it, but cautious. And then other people who just go all in.

And as we've talked about before, there are benefits to both ways of approaching things. But I do feel like that has so much value in it, that ability to just jump in and not really care if you're going to get it right the first time.

Haley
Right.

Sarai
You just don't expect to get it.

Haley
Right the first time right.

Sarai
Yeah.

Haley
So what do you think the relationship between experience and creative problem-solving is?

Sarai
I think that's a good question because I feel like there are benefits and drawbacks to both. I think when you have experience, you have maybe some tools in your toolkit for how to solve problems when they come up, and that can give you confidence.

But at the same time, I think once you've learned certain things, and you're good at doing those certain things, and you have your ways of approaching a problem, you tend to reuse those same ways over and over again. So you get kind of married to the way things have worked for you before.

Haley
Right.

Sarai
Whereas when you're a beginner, you're much more open to trying new things and I think also listening to other people and getting input from other people because you're like, I don't know what I'm doing. I'm going to ask my friend, or I'm going to ask in the Seamwork Community, or I'm going to ask my mom, whoever you have, or a YouTube video, whatever it is. And I think when you've got a little bit more experience under your belt, sometimes you'll just kind of do it the way you've always done it and not be as open.

Haley
Yeah. It definitely seems like there's this lack of judgment in the beginner's mind of not judging themselves when they don't know what to do, not judging themselves as much if they try something and it doesn't work. Where in the more advanced sewers mind, I think that there's like a lot more—you tend to become a little bit more critical of yourself. You try one approach that has always worked for you in the past, and suddenly you're beating yourself up and the fault is on you and not just the way that it worked out. That particular time can be like, really defeating.

Sarai
Yeah, I think that's an interesting point. Do you think that in the non-beginner’s mind there's more judgment generally?

Haley
Yes, because I think you have I guess I want to say, like, the more perspective on the subject, you have more things to hold it against. So it's easier to compare things when you just have more experience with them because you're comparing it to your last 50 projects instead of your last one.

Sarai
Yeah, I think that's true. I also want to be careful about saying that getting more experience is wholly a bad thing. Obviously, I think learning and gaining those skills is so—obviously, it's critical to really enjoying any kind of craft that you want to get into. But how do you keep growing those skills and get all those benefits of learning new things and at the same time hold on to the openness and the joy that you had as a beginner and not squash that with things like what we're talking about, like judgment and closed-mindedness?

Haley
Yeah, totally. I think it's helpful to recognize thought patterns, if this is a thought pattern that you're listening to this right now, and you're like, that totally resonates with me. Or maybe it doesn't, but maybe someday you'll be sewing something, and you'll see those thoughts pop up. Hopefully we'll be getting at some tips that might help you to overcome that thought pattern.

Sarai
Yeah. As we were talking about this, I was just thinking about I think we're doing these on YouTube, these kinds of sewing battles of different—we call them SEWdowns—of different techniques. So Haley will do one technique, and I'll do the other technique, and we'll let people vote in the comments which one they like best.

Seeing things like that, exposing yourself to things like that I think can be really helpful. Because maybe the way you've been doing things is your tried and true way, and you love it and maybe you'll always love it. But maybe there are other ways that if you just expose yourself to them, you'll find something different, a new way to do things that you've never thought of, even if you've been doing it for ten years the same way.

Haley
Totally. We get kind of, like, silly and campy with the videos and taking them very seriously, but the whole idea of it is that there's no wrong way to do something. In my mind, it's kind of like poking fun at the idea that there could be a wrong way to do something.

Sarai
Yeah, I think that's something you see, sometimes. There are people out there who are very adamant that their way is the right way, and anybody else who does it differently is wrong, and that's not something that resonates with me at all. I don't really understand that approach to life generally.

Haley
Totally. I would say that's a very Seamwork thing as to, like, you got to do what works for you. Find the way that feels good for you and explore because maybe you haven't found the way yet. Maybe you think you have, but you haven't.

Sarai
Yeah, I think that's definitely inherent to our approach. And not just that there are multiple ways to do things, but that you should expose yourself to different ways and be a little bit more experimental, not get locked in.
Haley
“No Us and Them.” That’s one of our core values as a company.

Sarai
Well, let's talk about some of our ideas about this. So I'm going to start by talking a little bit more about beginners, and what I think is great about being a beginner, and how beginners sometimes do get it right. And then Haley is going to talk about some tips for tapping back into that beginner mindset.

So we've talked about all of this a little bit already, but I'm just going to kind of list off some of the things that I think are great about being a beginner.

I think number one is that beginners often have this open and curious mindset, and that's kind of what we've been talking about, just being a little bit more open to possibilities and interested in exploring different ways of doing things.

And I think related to that, they aren't limited by shoulds, the shoulds of sewing. And I think that makes the creative possibilities a lot more vast because you don't have this idea in your head that it has to be this certain way.

I think another thing, and we touched on this a little bit, is they aren't afraid to ask questions. So that goes back to what we were saying about listening to other people and getting input from other people.I think that is something that beginners are great at. I think if you don't yet feel like you have the confidence to figure stuff out on your own, it's a great learning opportunity to just take it all in from other people, and maybe that diminishes a little bit over time.

I think beginners don't get as tangled up in the details, and instead, they focus on the creative part of it and being creatively fulfilled by the project. I think that's often because they don't know what the details are right yet, and so they think a little bit more big picture. And I think that's a really great benefit of being a beginner. Sort of like a new perspective on things. It reminds me of when you're learning to draw and you have to sort of untrain your mind to see all the details so that you can see things as they really are. I feel like that's something that applies in a lot of different contexts when you're a beginner.

And then the fifth one is I think beginners tend to not beat themselves up over mistakes as much. This is probably not true for all beginners, but I think a lot of times when you don't go into it with the expectation that you're going to be awesome and everything's going to be perfect.

And some people do go in with that expectation, and that can be disappointing. But I think a lot of people, when they're a beginner at something, at anything, they realize, well, this is my first try, right? And maybe it's not going to be perfect, but I'm going to love it anyway. And I think that's a real advantage of being a beginner.

If you are a beginner, if you're listening to this and you yourself are a beginner, I think you should celebrate that because you are in this wonderful place where you have so many possibilities ahead of you and really a different way of seeing things. And even if you're not a beginner at sewing, maybe you're a beginner at something else too.

Haley
Yeah, totally. I think it applies to so much. So I'm going to get into how to, if you're not a beginner, how to tap back into that mindset of a beginner. So I have five tips for you.

My first tip is to experiment and explore. So, Sarai and I talked about how there's no one right way to do things, and I really want you to embody that. Try different approaches, try different techniques. Try not to get stuck in tried and true. I think it's really great to get curious. And you're going to make mistakes along the way, or you're going to learn things along the way, and kind of going with the flow and adapting as you learn is so important and so valuable.

The next tip is to seek out feedback and advice from others who have more experience sewing than you— or in whatever the thing you're trying to be more of a beginner at. I think community is so valuable. I consider myself an advanced sewer. I mean, I've taught countless people how to sew, but this is a reason I really love to Seamwork community because I'll go on there and I'm like learning things all the time.

Just people who are posting about projects that I've never made before or little tricks that they learned. Or maybe it's like a niche thing where they were trying out this cool new dyeing technique. And I'm just always in awe of the creativity. And it reminds me that no matter how advanced I am, I always have more to learn.

Sarai
Yeah, I think that goes to just exposing yourself to these things in a little bit more of a—I don't want to say a passive way, but kind of a passive way. We've talked about looking up techniques or getting input from others when you get stuck, that kind of thing. But there's also just paying attention to what other people are doing and people who have creative ideas and following people who have creative ideas. And I think that can be a good way to tap into this too.

Haley
I love older vintage sewing reference books or surface design reference books. Even if the aesthetic of the book doesn't necessarily appeal to me, I love looking at them because it makes me feel like such a newb. I'm like, wow, that's, like, on another level, I could do it, I guess. But I haven't, and it intimidates me, and I think that's good. It's healthy to feel intimidated by something. That’s like a little bit of the beginner thrill.

Sarai
Definitely.

Haley
The third tip is to not be afraid to make mistakes. It's really all part of the learning process. Sometimes our so-called mistakes can lead to really valuable insights. It can inspire you to go look up a different technique, find a new way, and that way may become your new favorite. So remember to bring less judgment to your mistakes, and if you find yourself really getting down on them, instead, get curious about what—obviously, there's very obvious downsides to whatever mistake you make—but maybe look for the hidden gem.

Sarai
Yeah, there's always something you can learn any mistake. Even my skin-tone pants, that taught me that I need to pay a little bit more attention to the actual tone and color and how it looks with my skin.

Haley
Always stand under the skylight at Mill End.

Sarai
Get away from fluorescent lights when you're picking fabric. That's probably my lesson.

Haley
All right, so the fourth tip is to get out of your comfort zone and try things that challenge you, even if they seem really difficult or really intimidating at first. This is a great opportunity to introduce niche sewing, and we talk about this quite a bit. I'm a huge fan of niche sewing. I really like, for me, dabbling in sewing lingerie. I feel like it's one of the reasons I never go all out with it and go deep dive for an entire year. It’s an area that I know just enough about, because each project I do, I get to approach with new curiosity. So whenever I'm feeling kind of stale, I'm like, it's time to make a bra.

Sarai
Yeah.

Haley
It's time for me to feel like I know nothing.

Sarai
Yeah. I think there are a few different niches in sewing that are good for that. I think lingerie and bra-making is one of them. Tailoring is another one, which is something that's cool because you can incorporate it into a lot of different garments. It doesn't have to be like a tailored jacket. You can incorporate tailoring techniques into a lot of different tailored type garments.

Haley
Totally.

Sarai
I think maybe investigating some of those books and resources that are about those things. And it might be something else for you. It could be like, making workwear and learning more about hardware or making bags, whatever it is. Investigating some of those things and seeing how you could bring that into your projects is really cool.

Haley
I mean, even just, like, going into your stash and finding the hardware that you bought on a whim that really intimidates you or the pattern that you never make because you're scared. Go make that thing. Your inner beginner will thank you.

And then my final tip on the matter is to stay present and focused on the task at hand. I think it's really easy to get distracted by the mistake you made three pages ago in the instructions or even start jumping ahead to the next step in your mind. Staying present, it's not the answer to everything, but it kind of is the answer to a lot of things. And you'll find at least I find that when I am successful at staying present, I just get a lot more creative fulfillment from whatever it is that I'm doing.

Sarai
Yeah, that's very true. It is the answer to a lot of things. I've been thinking about that a lot lately.

All right, well, I'm going to just quickly recap the tips for you today. This was a great discussion, and we talked about how beginners get it right and how beginners really have a lot of advantages when they're learning to sew or learning anything new. And we talked about some of those advantages, like being more open and curious, not feeling limited by shoulds, not being afraid to ask questions or getting tangled in details, and not beating themselves up so much when they make mistakes.

And then we talked about some ways to tap into that beginner mindset if you're no longer a beginner and you're starting to feel that glow kind of lesson over time, or you're just feeling a lot of judgment towards yourself, towards your projects, or maybe you just don't have that exploratory spark that you used to have. So some tips are to experiment and explore with different approaches and techniques. To seek out advice and feedback from other people with more experience. To not be afraid of making mistakes and recognize that that's part of the learning process.

To get out of your comfort zone and try some new things that challenge you, like niche sewing. Maybe make a bra or something like that. And to stay present and focused on the task at hand and not get distracted by your past mistakes or worrying about the next step, which I think is a wonderful tip that applies to everybody, beginner or not.

So what's your big takeaway from today's discussion, Haley?

Haley
I mean, my big takeaway, I think, is that—the value of approaching everything with a curious and judgment-free mindset, I think that's actually a really valuable lesson for life. And it's something that I feel like I've learned with sewing and a way that sewing has enriched my life. And I just take that with me. And having this discussion makes me very grateful for that experience.

Sarai
Yeah, mine is similar, I feel like. Again, this is a really great life lesson. I feel that when you get used to doing something, or you get really skilled at something, or you kind of find your groove, over time, you start to lose a sense of the big picture and all the possibilities in life. And it doesn't have to be this way, this narrow way that you've prescribed for yourself. It's almost like that's now, the easiest way for you to continue going. But it's not necessarily maybe the best thing at this moment.

So it could be that you just need to take a step back and see things from an outside perspective, like a beginner would. And I think that's something that applies to any creative endeavor, but I think it could apply to any number of things in your life. I think that's really good food for thought.

All right, well, if you are interested in creating more space for your sewing, if that's something that you need more of in your life, then we would like to invite you to download a free guide that we have called The Ultimate Guide to Setting Up Your Sewing Space.

And this is a free mini-guide that has tons of tips and ideas for creating a better and more functional sewing area, no matter how much space you have. This is something that's been on my mind a lot lately, because, as you know, Haley, I'm building a little shed in my yard for sewing.

So I've had a lot of thoughts about setting up my sewing space. And this guide has actually been really helpful for me to go through again and get some ideas, especially some organizational ideas. So if you would like to check it out, you can download it for free at Seamwork.com/go/sewingspaces.

And again, it's free. So you can just enter your email and we'll send it to you. And if you like this episode, we would love it if you would leave us a review. Here's a review from Pam K 13. And this one's really funny. She says, “Inspiring podcast, five stars. And it starts out, I initially did not like this podcast. That's because I was assuming it would explain very technical sewing processes. Why I thought a verbal tutorial without demonstrations and photos would be useful is beyond me. Don't worry. I found the Seamwork YouTube channel. I kept listening to the podcast because I quickly learned it is about so much more than sewing. It has prompted me to think about the craft in a bigger picture and how it fits in my life. This podcast has broadened my view in so many ways, and I find myself eagerly awaiting new episodes. Thank you for an excellent podcast.”

Thanks, Pam.

Haley
I'm glad you found YouTube for that, and I'm glad that you came around.

Sarai
Yeah, I love that she said she didn't like it, and then she listened to it. Thanks, Pam. That's a great one. I loved reading that. I saw that on Apple podcast and was like, this is great. We have to read this one.

So if you have a review for us, if you want to give us five stars, we would super appreciate it. It really helps people to find the podcast, so whatever platform you use Apple, Podcasts, Stitcher, Spotify, wherever you are, we'd really appreciate that. You can leave a review like Pam's, or if you just want to give us a star rating, five stars would be amazing. Thank you so much.

And that does it for us this week. I'm Sarai.

Haley
And I'm Haley.

Sarai
And this is Seamwork Radio.